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Subject:Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold |
Jon Samuelson
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| Anyone here using Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold? I'm thinking of getting BOTH to add some drama to my music and film scoring and am wondering how they do in S1 2. I also have X1 to play with. But I'm starting to spend more time with S1 2 to see if its workflow will be more productive for me. Eastwest has a 2 for one sale going and its time to get on board the train. I like Storm Drum, also. This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 25/11/2011 01:37:35 |
Subject:Re:Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold |
Julia B
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| I've just read about it. From what I've read I hope you have a Mac, or already have a virtual MIDI driver for your PC.
I know about their 2 for 1 sale right now, and still even at that price it's too rich for me at the moment. |
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Subject:Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold |
Jon Samuelson
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| It'll likely run perfectly in Sonar X1, but maybe not in S1 2.
I do not use a MAC.
'The Word Builder controls the Choirs with midi messages. So if you want to use this software in the stand alone mode (on a PC), you've gotta find yourself a loopback driver. This is a virtual midi output to input driver that is intrinsic to a Mac but not the PC (so this is partly microsoft's fault [Win 7]) but can be found on the internet after some searching...Now if you have a decent DAW (such as Sonar 8.5), this may not be necessary as the advanced midi routing within the software is taken care of.' |
Subject:Re:Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold |
synthphonix
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| I own both plus a few more, I have replaced all of them and uninstalled all of them. I don't use any of my EW libs any more.
If you decide you just gotta have 'em and the latest version of PLAY doesn't work on your system (seems to be hit or miss even on identical systems), you can download version 2.1.2 from their support site (soundsonline.com/Support). It works on *every system, but it you won't be able to use any of the latest libraries (ie. the Hollywood series) or previous library updates that now require PLAY 3.x.
Also note that S1 is not officially supported and because of this EW support will send you generic canned answers that aren't really relevant to anything you ask, which is odd if PLAY VST / AU follows standards. Or, they will just tell you your sequencer is unsupported.
Ultimately, if they can't help you, they'll just say your interface isn't supported. A few of those threads on their forum have disappeared.
So, if you just gotta get those libs, send an email to support before you buy them and specifically ask if your interface, DAW, and computer specs are supported. That way you have it in writing when they make excuses.
Oh, don't forget to buy an iLok if you don't already have one.
----------------- The following is just my opinion ----------------------
Lastly, I (me personally, my opinion, etc) don't feel the company as a whole has very high morals. They've been caught more than once pushing shills into other forums to talk about how great their products are (shill = employee pretending to be a customer to generate positive publicity). When the shills were discovered and called out, they closed the account and started a new shill account (more than once), etc. One of the shills (actually related to one of the owners of EW) claimed her account was hacked after she was exposed as a shill. Shady, shady, shady.
There are several examples, but this is a good read if you have a while to digest it all. I refuse to support any company that promotes these types of shenanigans then lies, or denies, or passes it off as no big deal. It is absolutely a big deal.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/moan-zone/503810-why-removing-eastwest-complaints-thread-bad-thing.html |
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Subject:Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold |
synthphonix
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| Jon Samuelson wrote:It'll likely run perfectly in Sonar X1, but maybe not in S1 2.
I do not use a MAC.
'The Word Builder controls the Choirs with midi messages. So if you want to use this software in the stand alone mode (on a PC), you've gotta find yourself a loopback driver. This is a virtual midi output to input driver that is intrinsic to a Mac but not the PC (so this is partly microsoft's fault [Win 7]) but can be found on the internet after some searching...Now if you have a decent DAW (such as Sonar 8.5), this may not be necessary as the advanced midi routing within the software is taken care of.'
Word Builder is built into PLAY since 2.1.2 - no need for loopback driver or MIDI FX (MFX) support in the DAW any more. This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 25/11/2011 03:15:21 |
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Subject:Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold |
Cruciform
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Joined: 06/11/2010 12:56:24
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| Jon Samuelson wrote:Anyone here using Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold? I'm thinking of getting BOTH to add some drama to my music and film scoring and am wondering how they do in S1 2. I also have X1 to play with. But I'm starting to spend more time with S1 2 to see if its workflow will be more productive for me. Eastwest has a 2 for one sale going and its time to get on board the train. I like Storm Drum, also.
I have both and they run fine in S1 using Play 2.1.2. Never updated to Play 3. The caveat is Play still crashes a lot if I have multiple instances of Kontakt and Kore also running in the same project. But it works fine on its own. Hence I normally would do all the Play stuff first, bounce it, then use other instruments. I suspect mine is a RAM issue. I only have 4gb.
Choirs can sound nice but it is very cumbersome and time consuming to get realistic phrasing out of it. It's also outdated now in comparison to libraries like Requiem and Voxos.
SO Gold is currently my go-to orchestra. Newer libraries have raised the bar though. I've just bought Kirk Hunter's Concert Brass 2 and Concert Strings 2 in the 75% off group buy that ends today. They're Kontakt instruments and I'm hoping they will replace SO Gold in my lineup which will then become used for blending. For instance, I really like the French Horns in SO Gold and some of the string patches such as the solo expressive violin.
Storm Drum 2 is nice but again, getting a bit dated. Personally I prefer percussion from Cinesamples, Soundiron and 8dio. This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 25/11/2011 03:31:43 |
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Subject:Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold |
Jon Samuelson
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Joined: 24/10/2011 07:55:24
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| @Symphonix: Well, I've heard some stories of bad support from EW, and I notice guitar center does not have them on their shelves, so I'm trying to look at alternatives like TONEHAMMER Requiem, which I just saw an amazing video about it. http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2010/05/08/tonehammer-requiem-teaser-origin/
Thanks for your opinion, I'm sure you've had some bad experiences, and even w/2 for 1, I don't want to throw my money away. This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 25/11/2011 03:28:02 |
Subject:Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold |
Jon Samuelson
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Joined: 24/10/2011 07:55:24
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| Cruciform wrote:Jon Samuelson wrote:Anyone here using Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold? I'm thinking of getting BOTH to add some drama to my music and film scoring and am wondering how they do in S1 2. I also have X1 to play with. But I'm starting to spend more time with S1 2 to see if its workflow will be more productive for me. Eastwest has a 2 for one sale going and its time to get on board the train. I like Storm Drum, also.
I have both and they run fine in S1 using Play 2.1.2. Never updated to Play 3. The caveat is Play still crashes a lot if I have multiple instances of Kontakt and Kore also running in the same project. But it works fine on its own. Hence I normally would do all the Play stuff first, bounce it, then use other instruments. I suspect mine is a RAM issue. I only have 4gb. Choirs can sound nice but it is very cumbersome and time consuming to get realistic phrasing out of it. It's also outdated now in comparison to Requiem and Voxos. SO Gold is currently my go-to orchestra. Newer libraries have raised the bar though. I've just bought Kirk Hunter's Concert Brass 2 and Concert Strings 2 in the 75% off group buy that ends today. They're Kontakt instruments and I'm hoping they will replace SO Gold in my lineup which will then become something used only for blending. Storm Drum 2 is nice but again, getting a bit dated. Personally I prefer percussion from Cinesamples, Soundiron and 8dio.
Yeah, after hearing more choir demos I'm seeing some weaknesses, and considering Tonehammer. |
Subject:Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold |
Cruciform
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| Tonehammer no longer exists. They demerged into Soundiron and 8Dio. 8Dio has the full Requiem library and Soundiron sells Requiem Light (which I bought). Can't remember the differences, you'd need to check their respective product pages. Req Light is great, I use it a lot. It has limited phrase building capabilities, but nothing like the EWQL Phrasebuilder. If I had to choose I would pick one of the Requiems over EWQL Choirs. |
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Subject:Re:Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold |
synthphonix
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| Voxos, Requiem, Mars, and Liberis all seem really nice (I don't own all of them). CineSamples, 8Dio, and Soundiron also have great reputations. I think my next choir will be Liberis ... something about a kids' choir - angelic?
As for a single 'starter' and 'go-to' all-in-one orchestral lib to start with, Albion is awesome! ... but you don't get completely separated ensembles with it. I have not had a problem with this, though.
I posted in a similar thread not too long ago:
http://forumsarchive.presonus.com/posts/list/16781.page |
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Subject:Re:Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold |
synthphonix
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| This just in ...
Voxos on sale through Monday for $699
Everything except CineBrass (Core or Pro) is on sale
http://cinesamples.com/retail/ |
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Subject:Re:Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold |
Triton186
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| Hi Jon,
You have to take all opinions with a grain of salt, but I would be especially cautious when people bitch about forum drama dealing with employees. At the end of the day, EWQLSO has won so many awards from the industry and from the big-screen that you simply can't go wrong with it. Sure, it's software and requires constant development improvements like any other software in this genre does. You'll have to be the one to decide if the work-flow of this package meets your approval, but please do some research into the depth of design that this package has vs. the competitors. For example, and in my humble opinion, EWQLSO blows away the competition with it comes to release trail management and volume matching (one of THE most important features you need when building large scores). If you plan to actually use this software as it is meant to be used, (I would bet that 85% of the people who purchase it never do) there's no doubt you will be impressed.
Are there impressive alternatives out there, sure, but my money went to EWQLSO for many, many reasons. By the way, to the haters who complain about the customer service at EW, I've never ever had issues with their people. In fact, I have had very positive experiences with them via telephone. Email support, no matter which company you're working with, is never as effective as a phone discussion.
Jon, I've pasted the Reviews found at EWQLSO web site for reference, but you've probably already seen this;
“IT'S SYMPH-LY THE BEST - 10 OUT OF 10”
— COMPUTER MUSIC (PERFORMANCE AWARD)
“Across the board Pro XP's samples have a fatness to them that other libraries don't quite capture. Ultimately, the level of warmth and detail in the recordings, multiple mic perspectives, flexible ensemble sizes, and wide range of articulations make Pro XP an obvious choice for anyone whose goal is to produce ultra-realistic MIDI mockups.”
— KEYBOARD (Orchestral Library Roundup)
“A big, bountiful, powerful, expressive, sonically superior collection of top-quality orchestral sounds, recorded in a first-class concert hall, played, recorded and programmed by expert practitioners, waiting to burst into life in your compositions”
— SOUND ON SOUND
“EWQLSO is a major success and I really enjoyed working with it. The production room and recording gave it a great finished sound out of the box. The ‘room’ sound and reverb trails can't be matched, even with the best convolution reverbs available. Anyone interested in adding sampled orchestral sounds to their productions would have to consider this terrific library”
— MIX
“The EASTWEST/QUANTUM LEAP SYMPHONIC ORCHESTRA samples are now the core of my template. No other orchestral samples have achieved this level of realism and fidelity. I can actually hear my compositions come together as I write them, because EWQLSO has the sound of a world class orchestra, right out of the box. It's a whole new world. I’m loving it!”
— DAVID NEWMAN (Award Winning Composer of over 100 films)
“As the musical director and keyboard player for Paul McCartney I need to use the best orchestral sounds available and I have found them in the EASTWEST/QUANTUM LEAP SYMPHONIC ORCHESTRA Sample Library.”
— WIX WICKENS (Musical Director/Keyboards - PAUL McCARTNEY)
“With millions attending CIRQUE DU SOLEIL shows each year, we demand the very best music creation tools available - and like an exquisite fine wine, the EASTWEST/QUANTUM LEAP SYMPHONIC ORCHESTRA is not just a bunch of fake sounding samples, but a REAL ORCHESTRA AT YOUR FINGERTIPS!”
— RENÉ DUPÉRÉ (Composer - CIRQUE DU SOLEIL)
“This is a beautifully recorded (and expensive sounding!) orchestra and to have it at your fingertips at the compositional level is quite remarkable and that is before you even consider the way you are able to shift and blend microphone positions to suit the mood of the job in hand. Virtual is not a word I use very often but the Symphonic Orchestra is virtually perfect!”
— PAUL HARTNOLL - ORBITAL
“EWQLSO is a must-have product for the professional orchestral composer.”
— THE GUIDE TO MIDI ORCHESTRATION
“A moment or two with the manual is enough to convince anyone with an interest in recording techniques that this is a very serious undertaking. Talk about going the whole nine yards: these guys are purists to the point of obsession. I can't compare this to every orchestral sample library on the market but if there's a better one I'll be amazed.”
— SOUNDGENERATOR.COM
“In short, this is a staggering library, and it is a rare treat that we see such a well planned and thought out product come to fruition in this way. The recording quality is simply exquisite.”
— MUSIC4GAMES.NET
You received excellent advice from someone in this thread about contacting EWQL prior to your purchase, to ensure your system meets the required specs. Keep in mind that many of the folks who have trouble with this software are also using sub-standard or outdated components in their computers.
I've never even experienced a hick-up (other than a known bug when Play 3 was first released) at all with this package. My system specs aren't that impressive, but it is within reasonable standards; i7-930 CPU with 12Gigs of RAM. I'm running Windows 7 64-bit with Presonus 64-bit software. Disk drives include SSDs for the OS and Apps. I keep libraries on two 1GB WD-Black drives configured for RAID-0 for performance.
I'm sorry for typing up a book-sized response, but felt that you needed to hear a different perspective and one from someone who uses this software fairly extensively. Just one other thing I wanted to mention about the different versions. You said you're looking into the EWQLSO Gold package, yes? Before you take the plunge, but 'sure' to consider the difference between the Gold version and the Complete versions. With the Gold package, you'll miss out on 24-bit samples and two mic positions. It's amazing how the 'close mic' positions on strings can improve the presentation of your score.
To answer your questions; I use both software packages regularly and they both work great with S1 Pro v1 and v2. Anyway, I hope my opinions and experiences with this package outlined in this thread was helpful. Hollywood Strings and Brass is next on my purchase list!
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Subject:Re:Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold |
Cruciform
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| And 8Dio have 30% off till Monday.
And Soundiron have at least 33% off everything (excluding Req Light) until Tuesday.
Pity...I already blew my cash.
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Subject:Re:Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold |
litesnsirens
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| I imagine everyone has gotten email from NI but they are having 50% of sale on a bunch of their instrument packs too for Kontackt, Traktor and Maschine. just in case anyone is looking to improve their Kontakt library that they got with Studio One. I have owned sample tank for quite awhile and just upgraded to the complete studio bundle. Some pretty nice stuff in there the Miroslav Philharmonik is a great sounding and extensive library and is included in the bundle.
I think if I didn't already have superior drummer and trillian I would have bought the NI Komplete 8 instead, still a pretty wide variety of stuff maybe not as detailed as the IK stuff but covers all the bases a little better IMO. This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 25/11/2011 07:20:04 |
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Subject:Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra Gold |
Jon Samuelson
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| Thank you EVERYONE for your generous and interesting opinions! Its good to be here among so many people that have knowledge and passion for what they do and use to make music.
Decisions, decisions ... and so many options and considerations to consider. I think that ev'rything listed in this thread has some merit, and I'm still thinking about it all.
I find the EWQL Choirs Wordbuilder is interesting but not all powerful and not always convincing [I watched the JRR videos on wordbuilder, and they were insightful]. Yet, it does do a lot convincingly in some instances.
I thought Requiem was fascinating [I don't know much about the lite version, yet], but seems limited in expression for words, its interface being unique. Albion is another consideration.
The sales on all of these software apps and NI Kontakt is a consideration, so many things run with Kontakt that I also might want, like Orange Tree Guitar samples. I have to do some more research.
Your first hand knowledge and opinions are a great help. I will continue to review these and some online demos and tutorials.
Thank you guys! This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 26/11/2011 04:58:20 |
